I tried to tell you that EA sims at all lifestates are hardwired into the game. Anything in the way of a sim that comes with an EA world is in the program itself - they are not at all like sims born into the game or those we add to the game - as they are not in the programming for the warld - so you can imagine what happens with those files when people just up and delete them - they fragment and the game keeps acting as is they are there.

Also I believe any ghosts in the cemetaries when you start a game are even more different as they are part of the mysteries or stories the world is based upon - somebody - I am not sure if it was a Dev or just one of the other Gurus or who it was - my back thoughts keep thinking it was Ben Bell as it was quite early in the Sims 3 - but anyway he mentioned that certains ones were pretty much like old Mrs. Crumplebottom was in Sims two - (although she was not a ghost) but Killing her or letting the Vampire bite her or even playing with her in a household was opening the door to total game failure - in fact if i recall rightly when you looked at her files in Simpe she was not even a Sim, but was an object. Of course I don't have a Simpe like that for Sims 3, so I have no clue what the game sees the special sims as - but I do recall being told that trying to remove any of the backstory characters would badly affect the game programming. The game is going to freeze looking for anything it is programmed to use until it either finds a work a round or what it is looking for, or it will just crash to desktop or stay frozen in some form or other. That is how programming works.


I do know the only ghosts I sent to the Netherworld was those that had died while I played the game.

Also it is not unusual in a new game for Sims to not come out of their graves to up to 4 nights. I had that happen in Starlight Shore and it took three nights before the first two ghosts came out of their graves.

So you may have to end up moving the dead sims that come with the game to a household they are ancesters of - to delete the graveyard - but Bella might not be moveable if she is part of the back story and has some part in the story.

As for the clock stopping like that I have seen people report similiar things in worlds just playing normally, but I have never had it happen to me - but I can tell you 1 am is when everything spawns - gardens, seeds, animals, and everything goes through their growth state to the next like garden plants. It is also when the game normally impregnates the females in town, as well as moves in or moves out sims to the town. So the cloner is generally activated if all sims in the EA pool have been emptied - but it takes a long time to empty that pool.

I recall when Drowssap was dismantling some EA worlds - as she is the one who came up with the way to open a finished world - but in EA's worlds there were sims she could not remove no matter how many layers of the world she removed. They would just meander about waving up at her every now and then. She said she swore they were mocking here and laughing because she could not get rid of them even totally dismantling the worlds.

So even though some people still insist they have gotten rid of them - I have seen the proof that you can't get rid of them all - not those part of the town story - the hardwired ones. You are simply fraGMENTING THEIR FILES AND MAKING THEM INVISIBLE - and sort of insane seeing they are in shattered parts all over the place.

But I really did think only Pes and Twallan had found a way to do it - as they both claim their mods fully remove them. You do know though that using awesomemod might be a bad idea unless you plan to play the game using that mod? From my understanding when you uninstall awesome the save game is no longer any good - but then maybe he changed that. I used to keep up with all that kind of info - but nowadays I have enough non-modded stuff to keep up with. I do still stay up with Twallans stuff, but not as much as users do I am sure - but the last I knew a save where his mod is used to remove the sim is safe and does not require the mod to use the save - I would check though to make sure it is still like that.

Speaking of which - if you use Overwatch - I heard Twallan pulled it again either last night or today -I have no idea why.

Last thing I can think of - is wondering if Awesome being removed is what stopped your clock - like I said it is my belief you have to keep awesome in if you use it in a save. If you remove awesome I believe you have to start a new game - which of course leaves all the ghost back in their place. Then you are back where you started.

My last idea if Bella keeps coming back and can't be moved - demolish the rest of the graveyard and build a house over her - maybe once her whole story plays out the game will get rid of her.

Oh and I did not try and do anything to my ghosts in SS, I was just checking to make sure EA had not changed their programming again mostly. I was hoping EA would make them like they were before Ambitions, where they didn't produce cars and go driving off - but alas they are still doing that. I personally like the ghosties - unless they are mean ones - but I was mainly checking anything and everything I could about the programming in regards to the ghosts and there is no changes at all that I can see. But if any proved to be mean i would befriend them and send them to the Netherworld the hard way if I can ever catch up to them long enough. I made at least 6 attempts today with different ones, but so far no luck.

This is a fascinating thread, lots of great information on how to keep your game running smoothly and how the game handles certain sims/objects. I had no idea how easy it was to totally screw over your game just by using moveobjects on. Thank you guys for all the information.

I'm assuming it's a bad idea to use moveobjects on to move sims as well? I do that sometimes if they are stuck and holding a baby. The one time I used resetsim, the baby disappeared completely, portrait gone and everything. If it happens in the future, I will simply reset the baby, then the sim that was holding the baby.

I am kinda curious how Twallan's mods effect the game long term. I have a few of them, but I'm no tester, I wouldn't know how to tell the difference between something the mod caused and an odd glitch that would have happened regardless.

Very interesting thread.

I also do want to add on, no clue if anyone else has mentioned this yet or not. But the longer you play your game, the more memories you accumulate (which does include nonactive sims), the more laggy it will get.

I never experience any lag issues because I use Twallan's MC to make sure no memories are produced. One time I played a game for a while (I think for a week or so) I get such bad lag EVERYTIME I load up my game and it was ridiculous. I started a brand new vanilla and been playing my game, making sure no memories have been produced.

Also, because of my video card and my pc rig, I will occasionally get lags using CAST for a long period of time unfortunately. But I'll deal with it >.<

Allspice1232 wrote:
I'm assuming it's a bad idea to use moveobjects on to move sims as well? I do that sometimes if they are stuck and holding a baby. The one time I used resetsim, the baby disappeared completely, portrait gone and everything. If it happens in the future, I will simply reset the baby, then the sim that was holding the baby.

Never move Sims with MOO. Either use reset or testingcheats and teleport here on any spot.


@WR: Where do you read that Twallan pulled the mod ? He updated the other day but other than that I can't find any indications on it being a problem ?

The clock stopping issue is usually caused by an 'alarm' not being able to fire properly and can have any number of reasons. The time is always essential and I think it's DebugEnabler that has an option to list all the alarms that are being fired at that time. This can help figure out what might be the cause.

crinrict wrote:

Allspice1232 wrote:
I'm assuming it's a bad idea to use moveobjects on to move sims as well? I do that sometimes if they are stuck and holding a baby. The one time I used resetsim, the baby disappeared completely, portrait gone and everything. If it happens in the future, I will simply reset the baby, then the sim that was holding the baby.

Never move Sims with MOO. Either use reset or testingcheats and teleport here on any spot.


@WR: Where do you read that Twallan pulled the mod ? He updated the other day but other than that I can't find any indications on it being a problem ?

The clock stopping issue is usually caused by an 'alarm' not being able to fire properly and can have any number of reasons. The time is always essential and I think it's DebugEnabler that has an option to list all the alarms that are being fired at that time. This can help figure out what might be the cause.

I'll absolutely do that in the future, no more moveobjects on. I did notice that sim being a tiny bit glitchy afterward, such as walking between floors without using the stairs...I have no idea if that had anything to do with it, but she was the only one with that problem.

It does. It's a typical behavior after using the cheat.

Thank you for the info, crinrict. How bad could it get, is it only the one sim that gets glitched or does the corruption spread? Should I delete that save?

Resetting the Sim usually solves the issue and no, it does not spread. You should be fine.

Ok, cool. Thank you for your help, crinrict. I'm glad I don't have to start that save over...the sim in question is my current favorite (she's my avatar too).

@Writin_Reg:
I didn't use any mods when attempting to depopulate the world. It was only after I noticed the clock stopping problem that I began to wonder why a world simply allowed to "do it's own thing" without interference was glitchy.

So I used awesome mod, after making a copy of the save and tucking it away, to see if I could understand what was happening. Prior to that, I had not interfered, even to the point of giving sims directives. It was a vanilla game with no mods, no CC, no store CC other than Lunar Lakes. And it still did weird stuff.

Awesome mod was only a vehicle to do further testing, after the fact. I reported the findings, since I had used it and found out some interesting facts.

But the choice of using awesome mod to depopulate a world must be made after careful thought. It is a permanent choice. Once the awesome mod is used, that particular save cannot be played without the awesome mod, which must be kept up to date. When I am using it, I update weekly between expansions or patch updates, and I update every day immediately after an expansion or patch update, until he has the mod stable. That is the only way to be a responsible user of the awesome mod.

Core mods are rewrites of the game. Major code is changed. One reason that it works to depopulate a world with the awesome mod is that he has re-written the code to allow for depopulation, in compliance with the rest of the changes he made in the core code. His game is not the game EA wrote, in that sense. Awesome mod is NOT an add-on mod. It is a changed game, at the most basic levels.

I am comfortable using mods that I marginally understand, or that are written by people who I know are knowledgeable, and who have earned my trust. However, I stay in the loop, and keep updating. Core mods are not for the faint at heart, or those who are unwilling to put out the effort.

I tried depopulating the normal way, as a first try, because I would prefer to have a non-modded game as the first save of a world I have substantially changed by building many of my own lots. Unfortunately, that did not play out to my satisfaction.

So, as I see it, I have one of three choices:

1. I play the EA world population and ghosts, as is, and just add my playable sim family. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

2. I customize the world, with as little or no interruption to the game as possible, by doing the following:
a. I do not attempt to kill off the EA population. Instead I give them individual sim-surgery and a wardrobe/hair/makeup redo, so they become "my sims," in essence. I also use EA cheats to change traits, etc. I may need to use the machine that changes muscle and weight structure, if the sim is too fat or thin/scrawny. This is all doable, but time-consuming. And it must be done in each and every world. I will need redundant backups, once all is accomplished. To say the least.
b. I turn the graveyard lot into an Asian style "Home of the Ancient Elders." I learn to live with ghosts being in the game.
c. I severely limit my future legacy family and their infusion into the world, to keep my world population at what I consider optimum levels.
d. I check my own pre-built lots for problems outlined in this thread, and place them in my world. I redo every other lot, around the sims that currently live there, being sure to heed warnings from this thread. I use motherlode, as needed, so I can build what I want.
e. I keep a permanent mod-free Save folder, so I can start over, any time I choose to begin fresh. The advantage is that I know positively that this Save folder will always be compatible with any changes EA makes in their game. If I only use EA Store CC, the only thing I need for a backup to safeguard my customized world is the Save folder. I still always have the option of using awesome mod to play the game, using a copy of the Save folder. The disadvantage is that the world is not customized to my complete satisfaction.

3. I use mods to achieve my goal, by doing the following:
a. I use awesome mod to wipe all sims off the face of the world. I add the sims I personally want in the world, keeping the population to the bare minimum for my playable sim's enjoyment. This allows more room for future legacy growth/expansion into the world.
b. I still need to make that Asian "Home of the Ancient Elders," and learn to live with ghosts in the world.
c. I let my legacy family spread to where ever they choose, either blending into the existing population or married to new sims that I introduce from CAS. I still do sim-surgery (via the EA EditSim cheat to take them into CAS) to all service sims I find objectionable.
d. I check my own pre-built lots for problems outlined in this thread, and place them in my world. I rebuild or build whatever lots I choose to customize, placing sims in them, later, via the EA cheat freerealestate.
e. I make a copy of the entire The Sims 3 game folder from Documents, including the awesome mod that was used to create the Save folder. I also download and keep the latest cumulative patch that was installed, at the point the Save folder was made, so I could do a fresh install of the game on a new computer, exactly as it was on the day the Save folder was made. I test a copy of my Save folder with each new patch update or expansion, before playing my current version of the most recently played Save folder. The disadvantage is the complexity/size of what must be saved, as well as the potential of conflict with future EA expansions/updates. There is a small risk my world has a future early "dead end." The advantage is that while I have it, the world is my ideal complete customization.

I have not decided which route I want to take. Both are sizable investments of my time. I may end up doing both, so I have the "best of both worlds." Pun intended.

I have one other choice to make, but I would only take the risk in an awesome world, since the self-correcting nature of the mod gives me a definite advantage. I may still choose to delete the graveyard lot, after using the kill cheat and before the world is played (so no ghosts have yet spawned), knowing full well I am dooming my world to an earlier than necessary demise. However, it is possible that the awesome mod would work overtime to correct some of the problems, thereby delaying doomsday, perhaps indefinitely. It may be a risk I am willing to take, since during the time I am able to play the world, it would be free of ghosts. I need to carefully weigh how important that is to me. But it is a decision I could make at any time down the road, so I will first build the "Home of the Ancient Elders," and see how it goes.

EDIT: I would NOT recommend anyone deletes the graveyard, if they ever want to use the mausoleum (it is used for some challenges, and also to make genies playable). Also, I would NOT recommend anyone deletes the graveyard if they play with aging on or if they use story progression. The only reason I am even contemplating deleting it, now that I know better, is because I play with aging and story progression off, and I never use the mausoleum, for anything. I don't play professions even remotely related to ghosts. So, basically, the game has very little if any reason to call upon ghost/graveyard code. This is probably why I have been able to successfully play my real game, for so long, without it blowing up in my face.

I don't delete graveyards in test games, so it has never been a factor.

crinrict wrote:The clock stopping issue is usually caused by an 'alarm' not being able to fire properly and can have any number of reasons. The time is always essential and I think it's DebugEnabler that has an option to list all the alarms that are being fired at that time. This can help figure out what might be the cause.

That is interesting. I'll have to check it out, just for my own satisfaction. I still have a copy of that Save folder, so I can pop it back in to check.

But, regardless, I don't feel safe with the depopulated game. It was still registering 135 sims, despite the fact that the entire population had expired and most tombstones had disappeared--that number is way too many, even after accounting for the service sims who were spawned during the time the world was depopulating. Especially since 55 more were somehow added, shortly after the first batch was killed off. Something wasn't quite right about the whole thing.

It seems to me that the game was acting like an old world game, that had already had it's share of corruption, and was well on its way toward imploding. I just don't feel comfortable using a "naturally" depopulated world as a base for what should be my brand new customized world.

edit for typo

Have you checked with MasterController what they are ?

crinrict wrote:Have you checked with MasterController what they are ?

No, I don't use Twallen's mods. I've been using awesome mods since the start of The Sims 2, and I feel comfortable with them. Since you have to choose between core mods, I have not used Twallen's. I know nothing about them, so I cannot use them in testing anything. It would be too easy for ME to be the mistake in the equation. LOL

I know some people choose to use both mods together, but as fast as this game changes, and a complex as the core seems to be, I think asking two core mods to play nicely with each other is like taking part in a game of Russian Roulette. I'm not going there ....

ErrorTrap is the only Core Mod Twallan has (well, except untranslatedkey but I never understood what that is for) and it should work fine cause it does not change the same core file.

Only Woohooer has some issues with Awesome.

But I understand your decision