http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net all
First, I wanna put my small wish list at/near the top of this post.

In summary, they are: realism expansion, challenges, ability to design challenges. Details below. Here is where you can stop reading, because the following simply justifies my wish list. Elaboration, justification, illustration, appreciation, etc.

[b][u]Apology due first[/u][/b]

I meant this post for EA'a attention. In expressing wish list, as with technical support requests, it is best to be as detailed as possible. Then EA can work on something concrete.

The length of this post is not intended to damage your eyesight (sorry CashingTheFame!). The summary of my wish list was already stated in the 2-3rd paragraph of this post above.

Also, I must apologize if I seem to fail to respond to arguments against my arguments. Some of the arguments posted are similar to what others already posted. And I already answered those arguments.

One eg. is the "just don't use the life fruit" argument. There are probably 2 ways to play Sims 3: open dollhouse and intense puzzle. In open dollhouse mode, I can ignore whatever I deem inappropriate (like how PinkiePie618 and I ignore ambrosia and life fruit). However, if I try to play a challenge/puzzle, who is to say I didn't accidentally or secretly use life fruit? The game obviously doesn't prevent that exploit.

So, I will only be posting new information to this thread. I won't restate previous arguments. My sincere apologies. This thread was intended to desperately catch EA's attention.

[b][u]Elaboration, Justification, Illustration, Appreciation[/u][/b]
(Warning, eye damage probable from this point on. )

I hear the first expansion is coming soon (Aug/Oct?). I really don't mind getting more features in Sims 3 through expansions. I mean, how much good can you pack into a $50 software anyway? And I currently have a lot of confidence in EA; 1 month after ship, they've created a patch that removed all crashes for me. I bought Sims 3 only after that first patch, so I never got to see any crashes.

[b][u]Wish list here[/u][/b]. 3 items, it seems.

I want a realism expansion. Give me the ability to turn off life fruit and ambrosia effects, without removing the ability to do everything in gardening and cooking (for lifetime happiness points). Remove some weird lifetime rewards, such as teleportation pad. Change mid-life crisis to cost less, but swap only 1 trait; and also maybe somehow require the sim to "live by the new trait" for a day, so the trait sticks, or it goes away and the old one comes back. Just some suggestions, because I haven't thought it all through. You're the game designers, EA. You do your thing. [b]Oh, but don't sacrifice gameplay and balance for overly complicated realism.[/b]. But I think you know that already.

I want challenges. Not the kind that I have to manually keep score or painstakingly avoid from violating the rules. I don't want my sims to accidentally eat a life fruit when they feel hungry on the way to sell that life fruit. [b]If I have to manually keep track of rules and scores, I'll sooner go back to board games.[/b] Of course, turn off the cheats in challenges. And when cheats are off, please fix any bugs that require us to resetsim. Eg. the restless sim syndrome after giving birth (http://simblips.dailyradar.com/video/the_sims_3_restless_sim_syndrome/).

I want simmers to have the ability to design challenges. That is, "mod" the game, so to speak. But this is more difficult to make. I don't mind paying $10-20 for expansions that contain challenges. Still, you'll have made this "plug in" mechanism anyway, if you want to create challenges cost-effectively yourself. I don't mind paying more for this "plug in" (modding) mechanism.

[b][u]Even Casual Gamers Need The Realism[/u][/b]

As a further justification of my wish list, I argue that even gamers who say "Too.Much.Maths" will need realism in the game. These gamers are just oblivious to the realism working behind the scenes. But if the lack of realism gets compounded into a noticeable realism flaw, even the non-maths folks will balk. Eg, "[b]I was gonna marry that sim when we grew up together, but he ate an eternal-teenagerizer![/b]").

As you can see, I'm not the kind who will buy pretty cosmetics in your store. But I'll more than pay for challenges and gameplay balances. I still keep Sins of the Solar Empire because the developers continually tweak gameplay elements to balance the game, even though I don't have much time to play it anymore.

I hear the next expansion is like "Open For Business". Sounds terribly fun.

But if cheap and ridiculous exploits exist, any new features and challenges added will be quite pointless.

If I want to tell stories, I'd rather write. So I don't really care about the movie making feature in Sims 3. But it can still come in very handy if I wanna show off what I'm doing in challenges.

I'll be watching the new feature list for the expansions. If some obvious holes aren't patched, I think this is where I'll stop for Sims 3, won't buy any expansions.

I still love this game. Once in a while, I do devise a challenge for myself, one that doesn't involve planting special seeds (life plant). But it does get pointless after a while, hoarding more and more simoleans after the 3rd generation.

I believe there is a market for true-to-life simulations. If EA thinks "good riddance" if I stop buying Sims 3 expansions, then so be it. EA has the right to decide which market segment to target.

Just exercising free speech here, and giving free market feedback to EA.

It seems EA values the puzzle-solver market segment. Which is why we see things like lifetime happiness points and rewards. And it seems EA values realism gamers, so we see the buffs mechanism instead of a straightforward average of all motives. And the list of realism features in Sims 3 goes on, such as how work performance is based on metrics and not on "strictly above skill level X" rules. But I could be wrong about what EA values, I'm not at EA, nor have I done any form of market research here.

Obviously, if my thread is ignored here [b]by EA[/b], I will naturally take it as a sign to stop consuming Sims 3 products. In the meantime, I'm going out to buy top-end Saitek controllers for Microsoft Flight Simulator! Woohoo! Oh, which reminds me. I don't care for woohoo realism in the realism expansion. Just give me the puzzles.
]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/619981.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/619981.page GMT http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/620621.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/620621.page GMT http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/620626.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/620626.page GMT
Agree, summary please?]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/620638.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/620638.page GMT http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/620669.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/620669.page GMT
but I was thinking that the kind of challenges you getting too would make for some kool online playing. Just something to think about EA.]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/620752.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/620752.page GMT ]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/620803.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/620803.page GMT
I can't stand the fake fantasy part and refuse to use ambrosia, or life fruit, blue/green sims, etc.

I DO however, adore the grim reaper and saving lives (just because I can't stand my sims dying before they're elders). And I find ghosts pretty cool.

As for an EP, I really hope it's a very realistic EP. The only ones I ever bought for TS1 and TS2 were the ones that were overall mostly realistic. Couldn't stand the werewolves in Pets though, that crossed my boundary.

Oh well, just voicing my opinion.]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621167.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621167.page GMT http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621225.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621225.page GMT [/quote]
That'll just be a setting we can turn on/off, I hope.

It's not so much a realism theme or any theme I want. Any theme will do, even dungeons and dragons, or gnomes and leprechauns. The key is gameplay and balance, which will make or break a puzzle or game.

Take the legacy challenge for example. It's great in concept, but nigh impossible in practice. I want to keep a garden through a few generations, and not have my sims accidentally eat life fruits on the way to sell them at the store! And we're not even talking about the book-keeping of keeping score yet.

Still, there are ways to devise challenges for myself. Such as experimenting with how many (neighborhood) generations it'll take my perpetual vampiric sims to max all skills, though that quickly becomes an exercise in tedium.

Exploits abound in the game, some of which can be autonomously performed by sims. Not fun to have to manually keep sims from cheating!

Also, amanda is right about kool online playing.

[quote=amandapoo227]I was thinking that the kind of challenges you getting too would make for some kool online playing. Just something to think about EA.[/quote]
Yes, having some published set of rules for standardized challenges will be fun. Then everyone can have a go at it, and compare scores and strategies, have fun.

I can imagine some folks sacrificing family time for career, and thus bringing up odd-ball kids. Other folks may "farm" kids for cheap labor.

Currently, it's hard to take the challenges seriously. Obstacles include error-prone manual book-keeping, too much effort to avoid cheating (manually enforced rules).

True multiplayer would be tough, because we often want to pause our games.

One idea for cooperative online play might be in setting up a business together. Say you and me separately bring up 3 sims from birth. We then submit our 3 sims online to be combined into an organization (a la "family") unit. Then our sims can work together to make the business great. Some of them can even marry. So we'd be like bringing up the best kids to marry them off.

[quote=JaiSim]If you don't want ambrosia or life fruit why not just not use it?[/quote]
[quote=Wilderwolf]I read all of that and got pretty much nothing out of it. Just don't use life fruit and such.[/quote]
If one of my sims grows up wanting to be a gardener, I would want to max out the gardening experience. That would include bringing the most profitable fruit to sell at the market --- life fruit. On several occasions, my sims have secretly ingested those fruits in their inventory.

Same goes for maxing out the cooking experience, with regards to "not using ambrosia".

[quote=Wilderwolf]I don't understand what you mean by player made challenges in game.[/quote]
Google the legacy challenge. There are also other challenges I love, such as the homeless challenge by Scarlet on this forum.
]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621331.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621331.page GMT Give me the ability to turn off life fruit and ambrosia effects, without removing the ability to do everything in gardening and cooking (for lifetime happiness points). Remove some weird lifetime rewards, such as teleportation pad. Change mid-life crisis to cost less, but swap only 1 trait; and also maybe somehow require the sim to "live by the new trait" for a day, so the trait sticks, or it goes away and the old one comes back.
[/quote]

Im gonna adress these point by point


1)if you dont want to use it then dont just grow it and sell it or Clean Up the ambrosia . You dont have to make every recipe for the ingame challenge anyway just know it.

2) this wonbt happen nor should it . removing/tweaking reward items will only serve to tick people off .
]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621398.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621398.page GMT Give me the ability to turn off life fruit and ambrosia effects, without removing the ability to do everything in gardening and cooking (for lifetime happiness points). Remove some weird lifetime rewards, such as teleportation pad. Change mid-life crisis to cost less, but swap only 1 trait; and also maybe somehow require the sim to "live by the new trait" for a day, so the trait sticks, or it goes away and the old one comes back.
[/quote]

Im gonna adress these point by point
[/quote]
Ok, thanks. I'm listening.

[quote=Coffefreak4Life]
1)if you dont want to use it then dont just grow it and sell it or Clean Up the ambrosia . You dont have to make every recipe for the ingame challenge anyway just know it.
[/quote]
Point taken. Yes, I just have to learn the ambrosia, that's all. But, I was kinda wondering if I could get the divine meal buff without the life extension oddity.

But then, we could argue that divine meal buffs are too overpowered. I could just go for amazing meal buffs (from perfect meals).

Oh, and I just discovered that preparing a meal (8 servings) will shave off 25% of the quality of your meal, as compared to the full quality gotten from just having a meal (single serving). Just an interesting gameplay FYI. Very realistic! I have friends in the cooking business. It's tougher to cook for 30 than for 3!

[quote=Coffefreak4Life]
2) this wonbt happen nor should it . removing/tweaking reward items will only serve to tick people off .
[/quote]
Sorry, I meant "ability to turn on/off" when I said remove.

It's always a bad policy to remove functionality. Why subtract from the game when we could always add? Just add a turn on/off switch to let us choose which reward items are playable.

For in-game challenges, if EA ever decides to give us ambitious simmers those intense goal-oriented puzzles [b]in-game[/b], the Sims 3 game itself can turn off certain reward items. Thus, effectively [b]automatically[/b] enforcing the rules of the challenge.

Do you play challenges (self-created or by others)? Or just play out your fantasies? I play out my fantasies only for a short time. Then I fall back to experimenting (yes, am a "logic" person). I prefer to spend time fixing my real life than creating a fantasy in Sims 3. But I would greatly appreciate a puzzle or challenge in Sims 3.

Still no response from the gurus (Sims 3 developers)? ]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621506.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621506.page GMT http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621519.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621519.page GMT http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621590.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621590.page GMT As I mentioned in a previous post, and also in the original post, gameplay balance (for puzzle-solving freaks like me) and the absence of ridiculous exploits are key to an enjoyable game for some.

[quote=viewpoint]
It's not so much a realism theme or any theme I want. Any theme will do, even dungeons and dragons, or gnomes and leprechauns. The key is gameplay and balance, which will make or break a puzzle or game.

Take the legacy challenge for example. It's great in concept, but nigh impossible in practice. ...
[/quote]
]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621600.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621600.page GMT I wrote this thread for EA, actually. Yes, most people on a (non-technical) message board don't read huge lists of features or changes (change logs).

I leave the market research to EA. I'm not up to doing that.

In fact, you're also very right if you're implying that the major market segment won't care about gameplay balance or challenges or puzzle-solving.

It is a well-known fact that MacDonald's does better than Carl's Junior because Macs cater to kids' tastes (toyetic stuff, colorful packaging, etc). I prefer Carl's fish burger to Mac's anytime. A real meal. But we simply find it hard to deny a kid's whims. We see a lot of games with lousy gameplay still sell quite a bit, simply because they cater to quick whims ("buy and forget" syndrome).

And to defeat my own post honestly, I wouldn't mind the $50 I spent on Sims 3, though I don't play it anymore. Too small a price to complain about. I still think Sims 3 is way worth the $50.

[quote=Gillie]And like someone said, just ignore the ambrosia. [/quote]
But the option is there, no? I had accidentally "replaced" my old toilet a few times, though I was still happily improving my Handiness skill from repairing it often.

In programming effort, it isn't tough to add a "turn on/off" switch to things. It's called customizability.

In marketing terms, EA might want to charge good money for such customizability, as easy as it is to implement.
]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621728.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621728.page GMT http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621729.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621729.page GMT
While I personally also think it'd be cool if the Sims game had some sort of feature to reinforce challenge rules, the Sims series has always been an open ended game with no ultimate ending and I really don't see them changing that. It is not an RPG =\

(Lastly, I don't see how the legacy challenge is impossible (explanation?) It is long, but that doesn't equate to impossible...)

P.S. I am also bored of the Sims 3 though Just playing it to kind of kill time before some MMOs are released.

]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621737.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621737.page GMT Can we honestly say that we have abided by every rule throughout 10 generations? That we have kept a clean tally of scores? All the while as we play into the wee groggy hours of the morning?

Having completed a legacy challenge like that, I can't honestly tell myself "ah, good job, you've done it". I can never be sure that my sims didn't go off and cheat in some corner of Sunset Valley.

Liken it to chess. Winning at casual games isn't as satisfying as winning at tournament games. Referees are there at tournaments to ensure that all games are played legally. When we win at a tournament, we are certain we accomplished something.

Purchasing the Teleportation Pad by mistake will mean you have to reload a saved game.

The long legacy challenge is possible to complete. But [b]in practice[/b], rules and score are nigh impossible to enforce and track [b]at all times[/b].

If so many of us here don't mind such shortcomings in Sims 3, then obviously no improvements will be made.

Still, that isn't wrong, in marketing terms.

In my part of town, local ghost storybooks sell as well as Harry Potter books. The quality of those local books are nowhere close to those of Harry Potter. Gossip and Intrigue is a lucrative commodity.

Which reminds me (again about gameplay! ), regarding Gossip and Intrigue. To keep your party guests happy, simply go to every guest and give them a +10 mood with Gossip (Intrigued) and +10 mood with Compliment (Flattered). Don't forget to force-feed them with a +10 mood from a good meal. Then get them to play at a sprinkler together till they get +40 mood from "Having a Blast". That's 70 altogether. If your guests' average mood score is above 65, you just threw a awesome party. Don't occupy them with banter!

[quote=Tiari]P.S. I am also bored of the Sims 3 though Just playing it to kind of kill time before some MMOs are released.[/quote]
Now, if you can design challenges with automatically enforced rules. If you can upload those challenges. If you can play official challenges. There would be something more to do, right?

Some of us delight in creating new colors. Some want to solve puzzles.

For the first group, Sims 3 knows/presents no bounds! In fact, I'm probably using Sims 3 to design my dream home.
]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621796.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621796.page GMT -twitch-]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621814.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/621814.page GMT
[b][u]First and Final Bump[/u][/b]

This is my first and final bump to this thread. I won't bump it anymore, because threads seem to get pushed to 3rd page and beyond within a matter of 1 hour.

This bump is also to give EA at least one chance to respond. I couldn't PM SimGuruLyndsay. Also, it seems tough to hunt for and organize threads in this forum. My condolences to any EA staff having to gather market research via this forum.

If this thread gets buried without EA'a attention, so be it. Geeks like me get more time freed up for other geeky pursuits. Hehe. I won't be exploring Sims 3 or expansions anymore in that case.

[b][u]In Honest Appreciation of Sims 3 Accomplishments[/u][/b]

But in honest appreciation, I must say Sims 3 is the closest to real-life simulator EA has made. I looked at Sims 2 before, and didn't like the artificial neighborhood links. Didn't even bother to see if the Sims 2 expansions corrected that. Now I know they didn't, and am glad I didn't bother.

So again, Sims 3 is nothing short of a breakthrough. I will come back to it when I have devised another personal challenge that doesn't require inordinate amounts of book-keeping to maintain rules and track scores. My last one was... play the Martinez and get them to have 3 kids while topping their careers. The Martinez start at middle age (40-ish?), so it's a great challenge.

[b][u]Challenge Gamers Still Not Served[/u][/b]

I long to play the legacy challenge again. But the book-keeping required probably hurt my brain more than my long posts hurt CashingTheFame's eyes!

As a further counter-argument to the "simply don't use life fruit" argument, just to show I'm not ignoring any of you contributors... Look at the number of common gripes "I have no stamina for legacy challenge (or the like)". That's the book-keeping obstacle talking. If we could save our games, who would mind long games? It's the book-keeping that hurts our staminas.

Also, look at the numerous "clarification" posts to the legacy challenge rules (Pinstar1161's thread). If rules were well though-out, and automatically enforced in the game, challenge players will simply play the game and discover the rules quickly. Probably also report bugs with the rules, and suggest amendments.

Currently, Sims 3 doesn't easily allow us to test our challenge rules. It's a already a challenge for us to manually remember those rules when playing! I sure feel like I'm acting as "game master" (aka Sims 3 game engine itself), while the Sims 3 AI is playing MY game! [b]Wow, that's a new level of realism alright. The game playing me as I dish out the game rules, rather than me playing the game.[/b]

And that's it. My last post in this thread, unless I need to express new information.

In the meantime, somebody, anybody, send me a challenge that requires zero book-keeping. I couldn't think of one. There's no "number of days" counter in Sims 3. So I can't like "make 20 masterpieces in 30 days". There's book-keeping right there, manually keeping track of the number of days past.

And then, after I submit my accomplishment (via a saved game) to the challenge designer, she'd ask me "are you 110% sure you [b]or your autonomous sims[/b] did not cheat"?

Then I'd say "In all honesty...", and stop short with my mouth wide open. Why did she have to add the clause "autonomous sims"? Argh!


]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/622306.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/622306.page GMT http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/622487.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/622487.page GMT Personally I am not so like challenges thingy. I do like to relax while gaming not to get frustrated by something. If this game will content any unaccomplished by me but required challenges this game will be not for me.
The game could have difficulties level "Easy", "Difficult", "Hard". But I doubt it could be done cos the game itself is to complicated and big.
If you feel some things are not so realistic just don't use it that's it!

Just have fun and happy simming! ]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624057.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624057.page GMT So I have to make sure my sim doesn't keep any life fruits earned from opportunities. Make sure my sim doesn't keep any life fruit from gardening. In fact, better to simply avoid planting special seeds in the first place. As mentioned, life fruits in inventory can be autonomously ingested.

What about other rules? You do know that asking a sim to move in will add cash to the household, right? So I now have to avoid accidentally clicking the "Ask to Move In" button.

And there are other "minefields of potential exploits" I need to knowingly and wakefully avoid.

No wonder this game isn't geared for challenge gamers, like Simsprocfun seemed to indicate. [b]Playing it like a challenge will certainly make the most diligent gamers sweat digital bits of data! (in reference to gamers becoming game masters who dish out and maintain mountains of game rules, while the computer itself becoming a gamer!).[/b]

[quote=Simsprocfun]If you feel some things are not so realistic just don't use it that's it![/quote]

There's a difference between "safety lock out" and "just wakefully avoid using it". A airplane's pressurized cockpit has doors that can't be opened in the air. Geez, why do we even spend extra research money inventing a "fail-safe mechanism" like that? Why not just ask the cabin crew to simply "just don't use it (open the cabin doors), that's it!"?

I'm repeating myself, really. Sorry about that. I'll have to stop repeating. The arguments have been flogged to death, back to life, and to death all over again. Hehe.

Different market segments, different expectations, I guess. While I would be in awe of a chess program that can beat me 10 of 10 times, you as a chess enthusiast might complain about "predictable AI exploits" (with accompanying logic reasoning way out of my field of familiarity).

[quote=Simsprocfun]The game could have difficulties level "Easy", "Difficult", "Hard". But I doubt it could be done cos the game itself is to complicated and big.[/quote]
The game already has a setting for sim life spans.

I'm not sure if my saying this will seem inappropriate to you, but it's a plain (though really [b]not[/b] simple and obvious) truth. So here goes. Many things in Sims 3 are way more complicated than installing an additional on/off switch (say to turn off life fruit effects, turn off some rewards, etc). So what are they? Hmm...

The story progression. I read that EA has a "28 days later" test case that tests the story progression. The whole thing sounds easier in concept: just make everybody age along with the active household. But in practice it's tough, involving difficult AI. While many of us here complain about bugs in the story progression, we might wanna understand that it's tough to get right.

The social interactions. Yeah, I know it's just a few clicks in the game. But the factors involved in calculating responses are immense. Consider a real-life conversation. Multitudes of possible outcomes. Only the truly charismatic communicate successfully almost all the time (and perhaps go on to write speeches for presidents).

The physical genetics. Though introduced way back from Sims 2 (right?), blending the mother's and father's physical features together to make a child is complicated morphing and calculation. Something we take for granted because it's now so transparent and so... "right there all along".

And many more. Even the 3-D graphics is rocket science compared to the simple on/off switches I'm asking for.

And if you're worried about having to "turn on" the option for life extension effects, you won't have to. EA can just make those options already turned on [b]by default[/b]. Those who want a realistic challenge can take the trouble to set the switches to non-default settings.

[quote=Simsprocfun]I do like to relax while gaming not to get frustrated by something. If this game will content any unaccomplished by me but required challenges this game will be not for me.[/quote]
Yes, me too.

At times, I just want to succeed, you know? Just... let me create a fantasy world in which I'm a rock star. Please! Especially when I need a pick-me-up.

But other times, I want to stretch my legs (or brain cells). I may feel buffed up from recent exercise (a la the "Buffed" moodlet). I may feel I can take on the world. I'll want to fire up Sims 3 challenge mode, and say to it: "Now, gimme your best shot".
]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624688.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624688.page GMT ]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624743.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624743.page GMT http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624758.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624758.page GMT [/quote]
You kidding? Of course I did! I'm a genius geek. Wait, where's the geek trait in Sims 3? Well, I'll settle for neurotic.

Now, when I have made my first million, I'm a find those footballers who dunked me in the locker every fortnight...]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624770.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624770.page GMT http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624795.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624795.page GMT
You mean at here (http://easims.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/easims.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php?p_sid=Wjrln3Dj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=), right?

I can't log in with my username "viewpoint".
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You mean at here (http://easims.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/easims.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php?p_sid=Wjrln3Dj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=), right?

I can't log in with my username "viewpoint".
[/quote]

ohhh ok (: I was just wondering bcuz I don't think they really pay attention to threads unless they're being reported.]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624835.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624835.page GMT
You want EA to change the entire Sims 3 game to suit YOUR playing style?
You are afraid of others cheating in their challenges so they need to be policed?
You want to control how all others play sims? Wouldn't that make YOU the ultimate simmer then? To control all simmers?]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624840.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624840.page GMT You can open a thread [url=http://www.toolregame.com/forums/forum-18.html]here[/url] if you like as well since a site is for this propose. I don't promise you much views tough. ]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624917.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624917.page GMT

The point of a Challenge is to Challenge yourself. If there is no way to cheat then there is no reason for a challenge. If they can't eat the friut then there is no reason for the restriction.

I hope this game never becomes what you want... I may like some realism but I like the sandbox. And while I don't make movies, I like that there are Simmers who CAN make movies to entertain me.

You seem to want to remove everything which doesn't interest you. Which would make me sad. ]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624932.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624932.page GMT
You want EA to change the entire Sims 3 game to suit YOUR playing style?
You are afraid of others cheating in their challenges so they need to be policed?
You want to control how all others play sims? Wouldn't that make YOU the ultimate simmer then? To control all simmers?[/quote]

I have to agree with you. EA knows what they are doing. TS3 is far better than the first two. So it stands to reason that the 1st EP will also be a breakthrough as well.
I currently started a legacy challenge myself, it's to help me to stop cheating, and I am a very honest person, I would catch myself before I cheated, in a game that restricts cheating, in my other saved games it doesn't matter if I cheat, I just don't want to do it all the time, and if I did in the Legacy Challenge, I would start over. I'm also not following the points thing either, I just want to get to Generation 10 so I can say I have. Who's gonna know about the points anyway? I know I'm not going to create a post to brag about how many points I got.

As for the control thing . . .let simmers play the way they wanna play. I like everything about TS3, love actually. From the skins to the special seeds, if I want to add some fantasy I can, if I don't then I don't. The only thing I want changed by EA is to do custom skins, eyes, and hair like we could in TS2. Like cat eyes, and making anime hair styles or cultural ones like the Geisha. Otherwise, I wouldn't change a thing, of course if someone figures out how to do that, I would download them in a heart beat.]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624977.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/624977.page GMT
You want EA to change the entire Sims 3 game to suit YOUR playing style?
You are afraid of others cheating in their challenges so they need to be policed?
You want to control how all others play sims? Wouldn't that make YOU the ultimate simmer then? To control all simmers?[/quote]
You missed my points completely. My charisma skill must be level 1. Or is there a level 0? Well, there is now.

If you want me to address your points, I'll need to, er, catch the ball first. I don't quite follow the ball now.

One thing I do know is this. Sims 3 was designed to SUIT our playing styles in one way or another. In fact, the word could be "encompass" our playing styles. That is, Sims 3 is more than what any one of us would want. Therefore, Sims 3 sells to you, me, and everybody else here.

If a game doesn't suit any of our playing styles, why would it sell? Unless, it's a whole different ball game you're talking about here. I think I really need to spot the ball first before I can try to catch it.

For any moderators listening in, I know maybe I shouldn't have replied to this. But I didn't want to ignore anyone. Not too sure how to respond to this ballgame, though.

[quote=Simsprocfun]I do appreciate your opinion and your points v.much. But I think you would post it [url=http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/sims-3/671842-official-gameplay-feedback-thread.html]here[/url]. There is the right place for the game feedback You can open a thread [url=http://www.toolregame.com/forums/forum-18.html]here[/url] if you like as well since a site is for this propose. I don't promise you much views tough. [/quote]
Hey thanks! I just posted there.

But that site requires a separate login I had to create just now. Isn't this the definitive official Sims 3 forum where Sims 3 developers hear us?

[quote=Rflong7]Being a non genius I can find the "[b]Ideas & Feedback[/b]" section. Where ideas and suggestions are posted. I think you do want our feed back and opinions on your idea. [/quote]
Gosh. How did she figure out I was actually an insane clumsy stupid (no such trait in Sims 3?)? :blink: :blink:

Thanks to you too! I just posted there. Hopefully, EA will pick it up. I would have kept this thread short and less verbose, if I didn't think EA will keep pushing me to provide more details.

[quote=Rflong7]The point of a Challenge is to Challenge yourself. If there is no way to cheat then there is no reason for a challenge. If they can't eat the friut then there is no reason for the restriction.[/quote]
Well, I would like a challenge entitled "[b]The Sims 3 Game Challenges You to Earn a Million Dollars within 3 generations[/b]". I wouldn't like a challenge entitled "[b]The Sims 3 Game Challenges You To Constantly and Consistently Keep Yourself and Your Autonomous Sims From Cheating, Consciously Or Otherwise[/b]". That is, [i]I want to play the game[/i], not keep track of the rules of the game so that [i]my computer can play[/i].

[quote=Rflong7]I hope this game never becomes what you want... I may like some realism but I like the sandbox. And while I don't make movies, I like that there are Simmers who CAN make movies to entertain me.[/quote]
I didn't say I want the movie-making removed.

And I hope you read the section "Even Casual Gamers Need The Realism". If you wanna find out how the lack of realism makes a game "hollow" and makes gamers simply "go through the motion", read the review at [url=http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/simcitysocieties/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&tag=summary;read-review]here[/url].

Excerpt:
[quote]Need authority? Build a town hall. Have too much? Build a police station. Just don't ask why it is a police station spends authority--like many of the categorizations, the connection between a building and its social energies is mighty unclear. Why would a service station spend productivity, while a butcher shop creates it? All you can do is look beyond it and realize that it's not a connection at all--just a random abstraction created to balance out what is in effect six different currencies running simultaneously.[/quote]

And also [url=http://fidgit.com/archives/2009/06/mj_chun_is_a_producer.php]here[/url]:

[quote]MC: We could a laundry object, but then we'd want to hook it into an entire gameplay experience. Then we're going down that micromanagement path. If you make it just a fun object, you know, "ooh, a laundry machine!" and you get a bonus moodlet, then it's hokey. Do you really want to play The Sims and go, "Socks! I'm gonna do socks tonight!"[/quote]
MJ Chun is a producer for the Sims series. That was her response above, response to "why there is no laundry in Sims 3". I think her response is hilarious, hilariously valid.

Case in point: we need a reasonable amound of realism in our games so that we can connect with our games.

For those who don't get her humor... She means it's unrealistic to put in a washing machine and tag a positive moodlet to it. We'd all want to get home and "do socks" just cos it puts us in a better mood. Also, adding a washing machine as a purely cosmetic object would be unrealistic as well.

[quote=Rflong7]You seem to want to remove everything which doesn't interest you. Which would make me sad. [/quote]
No... sigh. That makes 2 persons in a row who didn't read my topic right.

Alright. This will be the last time I explain things repeatedly. I feel that doing so would annoy you and everyone else, so I'm gonna keep it to a minimum.

Normal sims' life span is 90 days. Now, if someone else thought they needed more time (unrealistic as it may be) to top not one but THREE careers, she might want life span to be 190 days. Letting that other gamer have life spans of 190 days won't necessarily mean REMOVING the 90-day life span for other gamers.

There's such a thing called "switches" or "settings" or "configurations". No, this isn't make-believe or wishful thinking or abstract discussion. This is actually already inside Sims 3 right now. You can set the life span setting to Short, Medium, Normal, Long or Epic.
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[quote=Simsprocfun]I do appreciate your opinion and your points v.much. But I think you would post it [url=http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/sims-3/671842-official-gameplay-feedback-thread.html]here[/url]. There is the right place for the game feedback You can open a thread [url=http://www.toolregame.com/forums/forum-18.html]here[/url] if you like as well since a site is for this propose. I don't promise you much views tough. [/quote]
Hey thanks! I just posted there.

But that site requires a separate login I had to create just now. Isn't this the definitive official Sims 3 forum where Sims 3 developers hear us?

[/quote][/quote]

If you go by first link yes I do promise. It's an official EA site for all their games and a thread is official.]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/625261.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/625261.page GMT
First, I wanna put my small wish list at/near the top of this post.

In summary, they are: realism expansion, challenges, ability to design challenges. Details below. Here is where you can stop reading, because the following simply justifies my wish list. Elaboration, justification, illustration, appreciation, etc.[/quote]
This is a long post but i'll attempt to discuss some things you have pointed out. Geesh
[quote]
[b][u]Apology due first[/u][/b]

I meant this post for EA'a attention. In expressing wish list, as with technical support requests, it is best to be as detailed as possible. Then EA can work on something concrete.

The length of this post is not intended to damage your eyesight (sorry CashingTheFame!). The summary of my wish list was already stated in the 2-3rd paragraph of this post above.[/quote]

Dude, EA is not gonna respond to this on the forum. Hahaha. They probably don't even read the forum. So wish away.
[quote]

Also, I must apologize if I seem to fail to respond to arguments against my arguments. Some of the arguments posted are similar to what others already posted. And I already answered those arguments.

One eg. is the "just don't use the life fruit" argument. There are probably 2 ways to play Sims 3: open dollhouse and intense puzzle. In open dollhouse mode, I can ignore whatever I deem inappropriate (like how PinkiePie618 and I ignore ambrosia and life fruit). However, if I try to play a challenge/puzzle, who is to say I didn't accidentally or secretly use life fruit? The game obviously doesn't prevent that exploit.[/quote]

You'll never accidently use life fruit, if you turn free will off. That's the only way to keep your sims from doing random inane stuff. You can only do what you want your sim to do. You have God like control.

[quote][b][u]Wish list here[/u][/b]. 3 items, it seems.

I want a realism expansion. Give me the ability to turn off life fruit and ambrosia effects, without removing the ability to do everything in gardening and cooking (for lifetime happiness points). Remove some weird lifetime rewards, such as teleportation pad. Change mid-life crisis to cost less, but swap only 1 trait; and also maybe somehow require the sim to "live by the new trait" for a day, so the trait sticks, or it goes away and the old one comes back. Just some suggestions, because I haven't thought it all through. You're the game designers, EA. You do your thing. [b]Oh, but don't sacrifice gameplay and balance for overly complicated realism.[/b]. But I think you know that already.[/quote]

Those aren't necessiarly bad ideas, but I think the challenge in itself is to be able to get 75,000 points or enough reward points to get the mid life crisis, which really isn't that expensive. You can tweak a few traits and live like that for a few days and then do it again, especially if you have a lot of points. You can turn aging off you know...

[quote]
I want challenges. Not the kind that I have to manually keep score or painstakingly avoid from violating the rules. I don't want my sims to accidentally eat a life fruit when they feel hungry on the way to sell that life fruit. [b]If I have to manually keep track of rules and scores, I'll sooner go back to board games.[/b] Of course, turn off the cheats in challenges. And when cheats are off, please fix any bugs that require us to resetsim. Eg. the restless sim syndrome after giving birth (http://simblips.dailyradar.com/video/the_sims_3_restless_sim_syndrome/).[/quote]
hmmm, unless you're doing legacy challenge there are no rules in TS3. And if you don't want the rules don't do the legacy challenge. I don't understand what you mean by turning off the cheats in challenges. And as far as the reset sim thing, I love that because in the previous versions of sims you had to delete your sim when he went bezerk. The game is not perfect and there are gonna be glitches. Every single game on the market has a glitch and we are lukcy that TS3 has a glitch you can fix.

[quote]

I want simmers to have the ability to design challenges. That is, "mod" the game, so to speak. But this is more difficult to make. I don't mind paying $10-20 for expansions that contain challenges. Still, you'll have made this "plug in" mechanism anyway, if you want to create challenges cost-effectively yourself. I don't mind paying more for this "plug in" (modding) mechanism.[/quote]

I wouldn't mind that idea, but I don't mind any of the challenges that are in the game. They could be more "challengeing" on some aspect, I'll give you that.

[quote][b][u]Even Casual Gamers Need The Realism[/u][/b]

As a further justification of my wish list, I argue that even gamers who say "Too.Much.Maths" will need realism in the game. These gamers are just oblivious to the realism working behind the scenes. But if the lack of realism gets compounded into a noticeable realism flaw, even the non-maths folks will balk. Eg, "[b]I was gonna marry that sim when we grew up together, but he ate an eternal-teenagerizer![/b]").

As you can see, I'm not the kind who will buy pretty cosmetics in your store. But I'll more than pay for challenges and gameplay balances. I still keep Sins of the Solar Empire because the developers continually tweak gameplay elements to balance the game, even though I don't have much time to play it anymore.

I hear the next expansion is like "Open For Business". Sounds terribly fun.

But if cheap and ridiculous exploits exist, any new features and challenges added will be quite pointless.

If I want to tell stories, I'd rather write. So I don't really care about the movie making feature in Sims 3. But it can still come in very handy if I wanna show off what I'm doing in challenges.

I'll be watching the new feature list for the expansions. If some obvious holes aren't patched, I think this is where I'll stop for Sims 3, won't buy any expansions.

I still love this game. Once in a while, I do devise a challenge for myself, one that doesn't involve planting special seeds (life plant). But it does get pointless after a while, hoarding more and more simoleans after the 3rd generation.

I believe there is a market for true-to-life simulations. If EA thinks "good riddance" if I stop buying Sims 3 expansions, then so be it. EA has the right to decide which market segment to target.

Just exercising free speech here, and giving free market feedback to EA.

It seems EA values the puzzle-solver market segment. Which is why we see things like lifetime happiness points and rewards. And it seems EA values realism gamers, so we see the buffs mechanism instead of a straightforward average of all motives. And the list of realism features in Sims 3 goes on, such as how work performance is based on metrics and not on "strictly above skill level X" rules. But I could be wrong about what EA values, I'm not at EA, nor have I done any form of market research here.

Obviously, if my thread is ignored here [b]by EA[/b], I will naturally take it as a sign to stop consuming Sims 3 products. In the meantime, I'm going out to buy top-end Saitek controllers for Microsoft Flight Simulator! Woohoo! Oh, which reminds me. I don't care for woohoo realism in the realism expansion. Just give me the puzzles.
[/quote]

It's like this, if you're really all that into puzzle and logic games, I suggest you uninstall TS3 and go play a game on shockwave I mean honestly TS3 has survived and has had the dedicated following because it's not designed to be like real life. I don't want to spend my time trying to solve something. For many simmers, the designing fantasy aspect of TS3 is what we are are all about.]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/625423.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/625423.page GMT ]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/625614.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/625614.page GMT Man, some power of capitalism and free market (Adam Smith's Invisible Hand thingy) we have here.

But I think we're both wrong in supposing EA doesn't read us. I've seen some of these folks work before. They do great gathering market data.

[quote=GoddessNoire]You'll never accidently use life fruit, if you turn free will off. That's the only way to keep your sims from doing random inane stuff. You can only do what you want your sim to do. You have God like control.[/quote]
Oh, yeah. I forgot that I had the option to be God, I mean... God-like.

Yeah, as I think about it, it does work. In playing intense challenges against the clock (before life span runs out), I don't ever recall leaving things to free will. Well, maybe once in a while. It's nice that Sims will go to the toilet on their own, so I don't need to toilet-train them manually.

Yeah, I think I'll try that. It's often irritating that my sim would want to autonomously flirt with a stranger right in front of her spouse!

But it'd be nice if EA made the game pause everytime a sim is idle. And highlight the idle sim (maybe glowing back of portrait) while they're at it.

[quote=GoddessNoire]Those aren't necessiarly bad ideas, but I think the challenge in itself is to be able to get 75,000 points or enough reward points to get the mid life crisis, which really isn't that expensive. You can tweak a few traits and live like that for a few days and then do it again, especially if you have a lot of points. You can turn aging off you know...[/quote]
Actually, I was wondering about the lack of meaningful rewards that cost above 35,000 (the points awarded for fulfilling lifetime wishes). By the time I fulfill my lifetime wish and get 35,000 happiness points, I'm an elder already. And most rewards at that price range are unrealistic --- I avoid teleportation pad, mid-life crisis, moodlet manager, etc.

I think I will get the Extra Creative reward, and have my sim do painting in semi-retirement (top of career, work only 3-4 days a week). Or get the Acclaimed Author perk and start writing Jimmy Sprocket and the Order of the Spanners or something. Do book royalties transfer to descendents upon death of an author?

[quote=GoddessNoire]And as far as the reset sim thing, I love that because in the previous versions of sims you had to delete your sim when he went bezerk. The game is not perfect and there are gonna be glitches. Every single game on the market has a glitch and we are lukcy that TS3 has a glitch you can fix.[/quote]
Yeah, I love that too (and the guy on this forum who taught me that to cure my sim's Restless Sim Syndrome Due To First Childbirth).

That was a challenge I posed to EA. Fix the glitches so well that we won't even need to use resetsim.

[quote=GoddessNoire]I wouldn't mind that idea, but I don't mind any of the challenges that are in the game. They could be more "challengeing" on some aspect, I'll give you that.[/quote]
Or more "goal-oriented". So what if I fulfilled my lifetime wish to be Leader of the Free World, and earned 35,000 happiness points? Die happy? Quite pointless, meaningless. And I'm still avoiding spoiling my future generations with the Teleportation Pad. Think of how difficult it will be to keep your kids on curfews! "Ma, I'll just... erm, pop into the shower for 30 mins (and continue the party I left)".

Yeah, I'm still feeling the jarring from odd unrealistic rewards.

How about... "Leave a Legacy" reward? Hmm. Works like this. So my mother sim has fulfilled a lifetime wish. Lots of happiness points. She's now famous, contented, leader of the free world. She passes on some fame to her kids, so they have some headstart in life. How about the kids get a 10 point boost in LTR (relationship points) with all sims in the neighborhood due to fame?

Or... the kids could get a fraction of that happiness points. "We're so happy for you mom. You did great. We're all so inspired by your achievements. So inspired..."

[quote=GoddessNoire]It's like this, if you're really all that into puzzle and logic games, I suggest you uninstall TS3 and go play a game on shockwave I mean honestly TS3 has survived and has had the dedicated following because it's not designed to be like real life. I don't want to spend my time trying to solve something. For many simmers, the designing fantasy aspect of TS3 is what we are are all about.[/quote]
Yeah, agreed. Which is why I wrote this:
[quote]Oh, but don't sacrifice gameplay and balance for overly complicated realism.. But I think you (EA) know that already[/quote]

And Simsprocfun and I discussed thus:

[quote=viewpoint]
[quote=Simsprocfun]I do like to relax while gaming not to get frustrated by something. If this game will content any unaccomplished by me but required challenges this game will be not for me.[/quote]
Yes, me too.

At times, I just want to succeed, you know? Just... let me create a fantasy world in which I'm a rock star. Please! Especially when I need a pick-me-up.

But other times, I want to stretch my legs (or brain cells). I may feel buffed up from recent exercise (a la the "Buffed" moodlet). I may feel I can take on the world. I'll want to fire up Sims 3 challenge mode, and say to it: "Now, gimme your best shot".
[/quote]

Really nice discussing things with you, GoddessNoire. You're very insightful, engaging. Makes me think twice or thrice about my own perspectives.
]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/625666.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/625666.page GMT Oh, Sims 3 is a breakthrough, no doubt about it. In fact, I always watch the intro movie to get a good overview of just how much of a breakthrough Sims 3 is.

Whenever I feel bored with the game, I'll watch the intro again. It'll fire me up all over again!

I smile at all the possibilities. Old couples holding hands. Young dad raising kids on a modest waterfront property. Teenage kids at school and at their usual mischief. Outdoorsy folks fishing in central park (thank goodness there are no muggers with weapons!), city hall in backdrop. Etc etc.

[quote=Robert_AF709]I believe that the game is intended to be comedic because it is consistent with the gameplay flaws that always occur.[/quote]
I absolutely adore the numerous tongue-in-cheek elements in the game. I'd find myself reading all the household items' descriptions! That humor has value. Whoever wrote all that took time and effort. They're not no-brainer descriptions like "a mid-range table, better environment score than a cheap table, less than an expensive one".

Tongue-in-cheek AND fun will also mean no murderers or fatal muggers. Sure, not realistic. But I'm not into creating a fantasy world of hurt and torment.

However, tongue-in-cheek aside, it is still possible to be comedic without requiring too drastic a suspension of disbelief. Teleportation pad? What next? Neo and Morpheus and Trinity freeing my neighbors and emptying my neighborhood (a la The Matrix movie)? Agents?

[quote=Robert_AF709]The beauty of the Sims3 (and Sims2 also) is that it is an expansive game that can be played in a variety of ways.[/quote]
And devise these variety of ways, I do. Have fun, I do. My suggestions for enforceable and standardizable challenges will enhance "online play", so to speak. We could ask each other "did you play that XYZ challenge? sacrificed your kids to reach top of career, eh?" Etc etc.

You know how we often ask each other how the test went? Well, that is, if the tests didn't translate into fatal situations like flunking out of life. It's human and sociable to relate, compare, aspire, encourage each other, etc.

[quote=Robert_AF709]I would recommend game mods from ModtheSims, MoreAwesomeThanYou, etc. as a way to customize the Sims3 to your satisfaction. [/quote]
Oh, I don't know about the mods, Robert. Guess I'm neurotic or something.

I never used mods. Not once. Not even when rumors abound that mods are safe and fantastic (unless they are published officially, like some FPS mods).

I always want the "original packaging". Always felt that "outsiders' mods" will damage something in the game.

And for the same reasons, I always have this... attachment... to original softwares too. Kinda makes me sad if my Sims 3 DVD didn't come with copy-protection or similar. Makes me feel special that it does.

Yeah, I'm a fan of marketing (sorry wrong expression, but censors got in the way). Give me a "make-me-feel-special" packaging any day.
]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/625849.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/625849.page GMT Can we honestly say that we have abided by every rule throughout 10 generations? That we have kept a clean tally of scores? All the while as we play into the wee groggy hours of the morning?

Having completed a legacy challenge like that, I can't honestly tell myself "ah, good job, you've done it". I can never be sure that my sims didn't go off and cheat in some corner of Sunset Valley.

Liken it to chess. Winning at casual games isn't as satisfying as winning at tournament games. Referees are there at tournaments to ensure that all games are played legally. When we win at a tournament, we are certain we accomplished something.


The long legacy challenge is possible to complete. But [b]in practice[/b], rules and score are nigh impossible to enforce and track [b]at all times[/b].


[/quote]

I like what you're saying here. I totally agree. I liked the idea of the Legacy challenge, and recently started the Asylum challenge, but it is kindof an honor system, isn't it? I mean, for those of us who are adults, I guess that should be good enough. But, well, for example: I realized after I moved all of my inmates in and after I'd been playing for a couple of sim days that I'd forgotten to deplete the household funds down to $100 (I think?) So then what? Start over? I just decided, "well, what difference does it make, no one's checking up on me, I'll just not use that money."
What if you could go into the game options and click "Asylum Challenge"...from there you build your own asylum (with a limited amount of funds) or choose a pre-made one, then create your inmates, (or choose pre-made ones), move them all in with only the amount of money you're supposed to have....if you try to cheat by clicking on one of your NPCs, or calling a repairman, or using motherlode, or anything not allowed in the challenge, you get a message saying you can't do that. Your game keeps up with your scores the way the Sims 2 used to keep memories. Someone dies, points are subtracted. Fulfill a wish, points are added. Then you get to the point where you fulfill your LTW, and you get a "Congratulations! You've reached your goal. Would you like to set a new goal and remain in the asylum, or try life in the outside world?"
Maybe you could even upload your scores somehow, and you'd have a sortof "league", with leaderboards for each particular week. Maybe winning prizes such as a free download from the exchange.
And another thing, I didn't think your post was too long. Sometimes it takes more than a couple of lines to get your point across. (As you can see.)]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/625949.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/625949.page GMT Gasp! What? Sims 2 does that? Can I still buy Sims 2 now? No wonder the sims resource have official challenges at [url=http://www.thesimsresource.com/challenges]here[/url].

[quote=Nicwin0]And another thing, I didn't think your post was too long. Sometimes it takes more than a couple of lines to get your point across. (As you can see.)[/quote]
Thanks for hearing me (*sob*.. *sob*).

The post wouldn't be too long for someone whose job is actually to gather market data.

But if I wrote like that to a customer (so I'm the servant now), it wouldn't be... "to the point", so to speak. I tried to catch EA's attention, but I got the Sims 3 customers' (fellow simmers here) attention instead.

I'm pretty sure EA has already gotten all my ideas BEFORE I even wrote them down. The next expansion is something like "Open For Business", I hear. They can't do something as realistic as Sims 3 (yes, it actually is), and then starkly display an expansion that breaks the spell.

The expansion has got to come with more options, more realism. Some simmers even speculate that the workplace rabbit holes may become full-blown lots where you can ferry documents to and fro between colleagues. But that might be a bit much "work" for me, pardon the pun.

Sometimes, a game is only good for the first hit, not the sequels (much like movies). We can't help it. Developers can't help it. Budget, costs, management, all come into play. So be it. *shrug*.

But I have a feeling Sims 3 sequels will blow us away. Sims 3's many main concepts (buffs, moodlets, etc) already inspired many great ideas from gamers. Things will surely become better, not worse. Truly revolutionary, Sims 3.
]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/626052.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/626052.page GMT http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/626092.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/626092.page GMT Gasp! What? Sims 2 does that? Can I still buy Sims 2 now? No wonder the sims resource have official challenges at [url=http://www.thesimsresource.com/challenges]here[/url].[/quote]

Ok, now I feel like a complete moron. This is the first I'm hearing of this. I guess I always just tended to play the game by myself and only go online for downloading CC. I mean, to be honest, I really just started learning about challenges, and I've been playing a couple of years.
Guess I need to broaden my horizons.]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/626316.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/626316.page GMT http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/626372.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/626372.page GMT It's there, at [url=http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/list/67675.page]here[/url].

Keeping my fingers crossed, for my suggestions and other gamers' suggestions. If our suggestions are good, and EA implements them (as if they haven't already, before I wrote them down), then we would have increased the fun factor of Sims 3 (plus expansions)! We would have done good for everybody.

No, I wasn't just thinking for myself.

And I'll be glad if I'm proven wrong. That can only mean one thing: someone else got a better idea than me, and Sims 3 is gonna get more fun.

Now, instead of getting my "Fun" fix in 8 hours by Sims 3, I can get my Fun motive maxed out in just 8 minutes! Then I can have more time to sleep, and get the "Well Rested" buff. Maybe I'll even have time to become chess grandmaster this time next year!

Erm, wait. I think I'm confusing real-life and sim life.

But who am I kidding? Who does play Sims 3 for only 8 minutes and say "It's so much fun, I've got my fill already!". Haha!

[quote=mjohnson801]dude...brevity is your friend.[/quote]
Nah, we had a bit of argument about the bowling scores last week.

Seriously speaking , yes, brevity is a functional efficiency. When dealing with male colleagues, too much details will either slow them down or give myself (my intentions/schemes) away. For female colleagues, brevity actually makes them suspicious of me. Makes me very misunderstood.

But as customers expressing wish lists here, brevity is a dysfunction. How often have you ever called a technical support center, and have them tell you "please give us less details, less! And we'll be able to solve your problem sooner"?

Well, there was this one time I called technical support, and complained about my aunt berating me for buying the wrong modem..., and then about my neighbor's cat for chewing it up... Just kidding.
]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/626571.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/626571.page GMT I think they just did that for Spore. Maybe in an expan pack somewhere they will try it...you just never know ]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/626633.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/626633.page GMT I think they just did that for Spore. Maybe in an expan pack somewhere they will try it...you just never know [/quote]
I just re-read the Spore review at gamespot. Do you mean this...

Excerpt:
[quote]it [the Spore Galactic Adventures expansion] adds an entirely new facet of gameplay to the original game's space stage: adventures that beam your captain onto a planetary surface and send you on a short series of quests. The expansion comes with plenty of such adventures, and there are already developer-commissioned adventures ready to download for free.[/quote]

Wow. Why didn't I notice that before? It's the score they assigned Spore. [b]I'll learn not to look at game review scores alone yet! Gosh.[/b]

And I was planning a visit to Saitek and Microsoft Flight Sim boutique.

Without going into detail (since this is Sims 3 forum), I'm gonna say Spore is amazing.

Another excerpt from Spore review:
[quote]It's actually a lot of fun to sift through others' creations, if only to marvel at the remarkable amount of imagination on display. And you can do this from within the game proper using an online database called the Sporepedia.[/quote]
Why can't we access the Sims 3 "The Exchange" inside of the game? Like for Spore?
]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/627102.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/627102.page GMT What about other rules? You do know that asking a sim to move in will add cash to the household, right? So I now have to avoid accidentally clicking the "Ask to Move In" button.
[/quote]

who said you cant move anyone in thats perfectly legal besides you would almost have to to to get 1 Mil$ in cash within 3 generations . I dont care your method of getting the cash as long as its done within 3 generations.

quite honestly ive never got your accidently eat life fruit point since its easy to keep sims fed and you can sell the fruit right from thier inventory ]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/628419.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/628419.page GMT
It is sort of like the legacy. but it is more about the genetics. take a certain colored sim and see how many generations it takes to switch its color or change type of hair, etc. or start with a really pretty sim. and then through the generations, try to find the ugliest sims and have kids... and so on. or you can do that backwards and start with an ugly sim. idk. its not exactly the best challenge... but it keeps me occupied.


With it I do not follow all of the legacy rules, it allows me to experiment with the game. I still use the random traits... because with out it i have the tendency to make really good/nice sims.... (boring) I dont have the heart to make bad sims. I did the heart breaker LTW once and it was terrible! I couldn't break up with all of them :/


anyway. i hope this helps. I know its kind of random... but just thought i'd put my input in.


and yes. i, too, am starting to get bored with the game. not because the game doesnt have much to offer, but because i tend to slip back into my sterotypical family. I might start off with any type sim, but eventually i get them married and then they have kids... and yada yada... it just goes on and on. I am in need of some new challenges… and I know EA can do this with the Sims 3. I need to have some more direction if I want, or if I want freedom, I can have it.


Just as an example. I used to play games called Zoo Tycoon 1 and 2. I do not know if you heard about it. This game has a free play, where all options are available and you can create any size/type of zoo that you want. The game also has scenarios with set goals like a “breeding/conservation zoo” or revitalizing dilapidated zoos. I know it is a little different, but I like the option of having both a freeform and and a challenge mode.]]> http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/630689.page http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/preList/67358/630689.page GMT What about other rules? You do know that asking a sim to move in will add cash to the household, right? So I now have to avoid accidentally clicking the "Ask to Move In" button.
[/quote]
who said you cant move anyone in thats perfectly legal besides you would almost have to to to get 1 Mil$ in cash within 3 generations . I dont care your method of getting the cash as long as its done within 3 generations.[/quote]
Well, ok. It's done then. And while I'm at it, maybe I'll share some of my money-making strategies.

Death fish. You catch about 10 of those in a day, each selling for at least $600 ($1000 if perfect quality). You'll make about $6000 each day. Every career option tops out at about $3000 ($500/hr times 6 hours or less). Also, the death fish business does not take a break, no off days.

Also, increasing your fishing skill is just a matter of "always catching the highest level fish you can". For eg., at level 5, catch Blowfish at the beach (Piranhas are in locations where you gotta run to). At level 6, catch Salmon. Try to catch fish with fruit or veggie baits, because you don't have to spend time catching live bait first.

And... you can grow omni plants and grow death fish, in case your over-fishing has depleted the death fish supply some.

And... painting is great. At level 10, paintings appreciate in value real fast.

Which brings to mind something about challenge design. Rather than "make a mil in 3 generations", I would like to see the new expansion give us something like "make a mil [i]in the baking business[/i] (or some other specific business) in 3 generations". It's hard to balance the game and make every business "equal" or "worth playing". Even in real life, some industries make more money than others.

[quote=Coffefreak4Life]quite honestly ive never got your accidently eat life fruit point since its easy to keep sims fed and you can sell the fruit right from thier inventory [/quote]
You get a 10% increase in selling price if you bring your produce to the grocery store. You lose that price hike if you sell via the inventory hole.

It's easy to keep sims fed if they're not occupied chasing "just that last bit" of something to do. Like when they're just about to level up in some skill. "Just that bit more, come on, just one bit".

Or when your sims are rushing off to the spa before a spa moodlet runs out.

Sims feeding themselves happens a lot especially when you get more and more sims to control in your active household. Such as in the legacy challenge.

[quote=rinnyroo]A challenge that I enjoy.

It is sort of like the legacy. but it is more about the genetics. ...[/quote]
Yeah, I do that too. It's nice to play with the game's complex genetics engine. Keeps me occupied too, and that's about it.

[quote=rinnyroo]I still use the random traits... because with out it i have the tendency to make really good/nice sims.... (boring) I dont have the heart to make bad sims.[/quote]
Sometimes, I throw in a really bad trait just to add some challenge. Like... hmm... being a slob while wanting to also be ambitious.

[quote=rinnyroo]anyway. i hope this helps. I know its kind of random... but just thought i'd put my input in.[/quote]
Helps lots, thanks. Good to know I'm not alone. Many of us have now explored the Sims 3 engine (moodlets and such). Been nice. But we need something more goal-oriented than [b][i]fulfill lifetime wish to get tons of happiness points, and then having nowhere to spend them in elder stage[/i][/b]. Did you read my suggestion about some "Pass on Legacy" lifetime reward? Let's an elder sim who has fulfilled a lifetime wish buy a meaningful reward, so that future generations can benefit.

[quote=rinnyroo]I am in need of some new challenges... and I know EA can do this with the Sims 3. I need to have some more direction if I want, or if I want freedom, I can have it.[/quote]
Same here. I need the option to have sandbox or challenges. From the looks of Sims 3, it's hard to imagine that EA [b]can't[/b] [i]do this[/i] (add goal-oriented challenges) in expansion packs. I just don't know if EA [b]will[/b] do this. Quite unlikely. Sims 3 ain't come this far to stop short like that.

[quote=rinnyroo]Just as an example. I used to play games called Zoo Tycoon 1 and 2. I do not know if you heard about it. This game has a free play, where all options are available and you can create any size/type of zoo that you want. The game also has scenarios with set goals like a "breeding/conservation zoo" or revitalizing dilapidated zoos. I know it is a little different, but I like the option of having both a freeform and and a challenge mode.[/quote]
Yes, I heard of that before. If not for the not-too-great graphics, I would have spent time on that one.

Sandbox and challenge mode, that's great. But some games have challenges or goals that are not too great in and of themselves. Which is why I hope EA creates a "challenge designer" for us creative challenge designers. I do hope to see the legacy challenge formally put into Sims 3.
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